Orangeview Junior High School
Discussion of the Educational Issues Facing Orangeview Junior High School
We have indeed had a unique year (to say the least). Everything seems to have been delayed and we are doing now much of what we would normally do in April and May. For example, we spend time each spring reviewing policies to ensure we have the optimum systems in place for the management of student behavior. We are looking for perspectives regarding our dress code policy for next year. Orangeview has had a uniform policy for a number of years. We are finishing our third year with a bottom wear policy which we expanded this year to include navy blue. Many teachers expressed more of a concern with the outer wear - multiple designs, insignias, etc on sweatshirts and jackets and would like to eliminate the pants requiremtn in exchange for more limits on outer wear. Our Free Dress day had multiple staff members comment on how great the kids looked - much better than in uniform. We will always have to monitor, enforce and correct dress issues with our students. What policy will produce student behavior that best supports academic and social success. Please post your perspective and revisit replying to what others write to see if consensus opinion emerges. We are looking to make changes and are considering major modifications. We look forward to your input.
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Discussion of the Educational Issues Facing Orangeview Junior High School
Dress Code
Thursday, June 5th, 2008We have indeed had a unique year (to say the least). Everything seems to have been delayed and we are doing now much of what we would normally do in April and May. For example, we spend time each spring reviewing policies to ensure we have the optimum systems in place for the management of student behavior. We are looking for perspectives regarding our dress code policy for next year. Orangeview has had a uniform policy for a number of years. We are finishing our third year with a bottom wear policy which we expanded this year to include navy blue. Many teachers expressed more of a concern with the outer wear - multiple designs, insignias, etc on sweatshirts and jackets and would like to eliminate the pants requiremtn in exchange for more limits on outer wear. Our Free Dress day had multiple staff members comment on how great the kids looked - much better than in uniform. We will always have to monitor, enforce and correct dress issues with our students. What policy will produce student behavior that best supports academic and social success. Please post your perspective and revisit replying to what others write to see if consensus opinion emerges. We are looking to make changes and are considering major modifications. We look forward to your input.
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Ben Star said:
Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 11:57 AM
I feel that we should remove the dress code for the bottoms only and keep the polo shirts. It is nice to walk around campus and know that the student belongs on campus based on their shirt. We should also loose the tuck in rule as it is a battle we will never win.
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Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 11:57 AM
I feel that we should remove the dress code for the bottoms only and keep the polo shirts. It is nice to walk around campus and know that the student belongs on campus based on their shirt. We should also loose the tuck in rule as it is a battle we will never win.
Flag as inappropriateRudy Sass said:
Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 12:16 PM
I would say that it is rare that the student shirt isn't covered in some manner, i.e. covered up with another shirt, sweat shirt, jacket, etc. And it doesn't matter how hot it is outside. On the free dress day, the kids looked great and clean! There just aren't that many students who only wear the shirt and nothing under/over, etc. They kind of dress their own way now, why now legalize it! I get tired of battling the shirt issue of tucking, anyways. There will always be some sort of dress code, it's just what we are willing to enforce and whether there are benefits from enforcing it. Is it an issue that would make some students not want to come here? or does it matter?
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Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 12:16 PM
I would say that it is rare that the student shirt isn't covered in some manner, i.e. covered up with another shirt, sweat shirt, jacket, etc. And it doesn't matter how hot it is outside. On the free dress day, the kids looked great and clean! There just aren't that many students who only wear the shirt and nothing under/over, etc. They kind of dress their own way now, why now legalize it! I get tired of battling the shirt issue of tucking, anyways. There will always be some sort of dress code, it's just what we are willing to enforce and whether there are benefits from enforcing it. Is it an issue that would make some students not want to come here? or does it matter?
Flag as inappropriateRudy Sass said:
Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 12:17 PM
Why not legalize it! Sorry, I was in a hurry.
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Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 12:17 PM
Why not legalize it! Sorry, I was in a hurry.
Flag as inappropriateCharles Meyer said:
Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 1:23 PM
I think that good behavior and bad behavior comes forth from within the student not due to what they are wearing on the outside. They can be just as disruptive or defiant in a uniform or not! The uniform was designed to be an academic attire which would promote learning and encourage students to "dress for success." I'm not sure it does. Plus, as the year goes by the shirts and pants start to look pretty bad. On the free dress day the students looked really good! Schools to the west of us seem to have no trouble motivating students to be successful and behave well without uniforms! I say, let's go with a dress code which can be enforced, e.g. no inappropriate slogans, symbols, etc., no tank tops or other types of brief attire, etc. Then let's focus on what counts.
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Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 1:23 PM
I think that good behavior and bad behavior comes forth from within the student not due to what they are wearing on the outside. They can be just as disruptive or defiant in a uniform or not! The uniform was designed to be an academic attire which would promote learning and encourage students to "dress for success." I'm not sure it does. Plus, as the year goes by the shirts and pants start to look pretty bad. On the free dress day the students looked really good! Schools to the west of us seem to have no trouble motivating students to be successful and behave well without uniforms! I say, let's go with a dress code which can be enforced, e.g. no inappropriate slogans, symbols, etc., no tank tops or other types of brief attire, etc. Then let's focus on what counts.
Flag as inappropriateHeather Gruenthal said:
Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 2:33 PM
A parent commented to me that with the uniform policy, she has to do twice as much laundry because the uniform comes off right after school, and she's having to do laundry for regular clothes plus uniform clothes each day.
It seems out of place that in our community students are only made to wear the uniform for the two years of junior high school. The elementary school and high schools in the surrounding area do not have a uniform.
They do start looking pretty shabby by the end of school.
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Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 2:33 PM
A parent commented to me that with the uniform policy, she has to do twice as much laundry because the uniform comes off right after school, and she's having to do laundry for regular clothes plus uniform clothes each day.
It seems out of place that in our community students are only made to wear the uniform for the two years of junior high school. The elementary school and high schools in the surrounding area do not have a uniform.
They do start looking pretty shabby by the end of school.
Flag as inappropriateRon Trace said:
Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 2:35 PM
I was a huge advocate for the dress code at the beginning. Upon thinking about it, there are very few of our students who's shirts you actually see. I think it would be much easier if we did away with the school uniform and trusted to students to adhear to the district dress code. I agree with Rudy that most of our kids cover up their shirts with something else anyways. I would love to not have the feeling of being one of the only teachers that seems to make kids tuck in their shirts and remove sweatshirts that are not up to our dress code. I am in favor of doing away with our uniforms (wow, I never thought I would say that), it seems to make sense to me.
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Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 2:35 PM
I was a huge advocate for the dress code at the beginning. Upon thinking about it, there are very few of our students who's shirts you actually see. I think it would be much easier if we did away with the school uniform and trusted to students to adhear to the district dress code. I agree with Rudy that most of our kids cover up their shirts with something else anyways. I would love to not have the feeling of being one of the only teachers that seems to make kids tuck in their shirts and remove sweatshirts that are not up to our dress code. I am in favor of doing away with our uniforms (wow, I never thought I would say that), it seems to make sense to me.
Flag as inappropriatePenny Valenzuela said:
Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 3:18 PM
The dress code issue is certainly a valid discussion topic. At a minimum, I've never understood why jeans weren't allowed. I agree that so many of the shirts look so shabby. Sadly, a number of the kids who are at OV for reasons other than OV being their home school (special ed, transfers, school of choice) have issues about wearing uniform shirts that identify them as being schooled in other than their home neighborhood. I think that the uniform shirts also impart a "ghetto school" mentality - especially to those parents who are from outside the area.
In my ten or eleven years in this district I have never seen an occasion where the shirts tucked in rule has prevented a student from carrying a weapon. I remember living in South's area when the shirts tucked in rule was implemented, and as a parent my thought was "Oh, that school must be dangerous."
So all-in-all, I think that it's likely worthy of dropping the uniform. I do think that it would be wonderful to continue selling the uniform shirts and market the shirts as something to have pride in - "I'm at Orangeview panther and proud of it!" Maybe some sort of incentive for wearing the shirts one day a week could be offered such as leaving for lunch two minutes early, receiving coupons of some kind, or even just a spirit of student-staff alliance - "Hooray for us - we're wearing the same shirts! Aren't we proud to be associated with each other!"
Love the blog idea!
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Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 3:18 PM
The dress code issue is certainly a valid discussion topic. At a minimum, I've never understood why jeans weren't allowed. I agree that so many of the shirts look so shabby. Sadly, a number of the kids who are at OV for reasons other than OV being their home school (special ed, transfers, school of choice) have issues about wearing uniform shirts that identify them as being schooled in other than their home neighborhood. I think that the uniform shirts also impart a "ghetto school" mentality - especially to those parents who are from outside the area.
In my ten or eleven years in this district I have never seen an occasion where the shirts tucked in rule has prevented a student from carrying a weapon. I remember living in South's area when the shirts tucked in rule was implemented, and as a parent my thought was "Oh, that school must be dangerous."
So all-in-all, I think that it's likely worthy of dropping the uniform. I do think that it would be wonderful to continue selling the uniform shirts and market the shirts as something to have pride in - "I'm at Orangeview panther and proud of it!" Maybe some sort of incentive for wearing the shirts one day a week could be offered such as leaving for lunch two minutes early, receiving coupons of some kind, or even just a spirit of student-staff alliance - "Hooray for us - we're wearing the same shirts! Aren't we proud to be associated with each other!"
Love the blog idea!
Flag as inappropriateDana Glidden said:
Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 4:39 PM
Like Ron, am in favor of changing the uniform policy at OV, BUT I have reservations about dumping the entire thing. As Ben pointed out, having a shirt (even if they are covered most of the time) at least identifies students as belonging on campus. The blue and khaki pants issue doesn't seem to present much of an enforcement problem (and if JEANS were included as blue pants, I think there would be little, if any, problems). The tucked in shirt, on the other hand seems to cause a whole lot of problems while solving none.
Over at Dale JHS, they did away with the 'tuck in' policy this year. The three people I spoke with about it (two of whom were staunch opponents of allowing students to have shirts untucked) said that the policy of untucked uniform shirts has been quite successful with both students and staff. Teachers say they can welcome students to class rather than requesting that the student tuck in their shirt. Keeping the uniform shirts has continued to alleviate some of the social problems associated with no uniforms and does facilitate identification of children as students who belong on campus.
I feel like we have made such a BIG deal out of uniforms that if we eliminate them entirely many of our current 7th grade (soon to be 8th grade) population will get a very wrong idea about how to get what they want at school. Perhaps doing away with the tuck in and adding jeans to the pants option is a good start, and as we see how it affects student behavior it can contiue to be modified in the coming years.
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Thursday, June 5th, 2008 @ 4:39 PM
Like Ron, am in favor of changing the uniform policy at OV, BUT I have reservations about dumping the entire thing. As Ben pointed out, having a shirt (even if they are covered most of the time) at least identifies students as belonging on campus. The blue and khaki pants issue doesn't seem to present much of an enforcement problem (and if JEANS were included as blue pants, I think there would be little, if any, problems). The tucked in shirt, on the other hand seems to cause a whole lot of problems while solving none.
Over at Dale JHS, they did away with the 'tuck in' policy this year. The three people I spoke with about it (two of whom were staunch opponents of allowing students to have shirts untucked) said that the policy of untucked uniform shirts has been quite successful with both students and staff. Teachers say they can welcome students to class rather than requesting that the student tuck in their shirt. Keeping the uniform shirts has continued to alleviate some of the social problems associated with no uniforms and does facilitate identification of children as students who belong on campus.
I feel like we have made such a BIG deal out of uniforms that if we eliminate them entirely many of our current 7th grade (soon to be 8th grade) population will get a very wrong idea about how to get what they want at school. Perhaps doing away with the tuck in and adding jeans to the pants option is a good start, and as we see how it affects student behavior it can contiue to be modified in the coming years.
Flag as inappropriateVanessa Montgomery said:
Friday, June 6th, 2008 @ 11:20 AM
I am in agreement with Glidden. I think that tucking in the uniform shirt has been more of a hassle than anything else. I really do like the uniforms and some of the students do too. I think one thing to consider is shirt size. We have students that should be wearing mediums that are wearing XL's. If we were to keep the shirts, I would for at least next year, I would like the tucking policy to disappear, but we need to try to get students to wear shirts that are the appropriate size.
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Friday, June 6th, 2008 @ 11:20 AM
I am in agreement with Glidden. I think that tucking in the uniform shirt has been more of a hassle than anything else. I really do like the uniforms and some of the students do too. I think one thing to consider is shirt size. We have students that should be wearing mediums that are wearing XL's. If we were to keep the shirts, I would for at least next year, I would like the tucking policy to disappear, but we need to try to get students to wear shirts that are the appropriate size.
Flag as inappropriateDan Kleinschrodt said:
Friday, June 6th, 2008 @ 6:03 PM
I think we need to keep the uniform tops. As evidenced on free dress day, many female students will try to push the envelope and wear revealing clothing that is not appropriate for a junior high filled with hormone ravaged boys. I do not want to be put in the position of judging what is or is not an appropriate top for a girl to wear. It will always be a judgement call on someone's part, which leaves the door open for inconsistency in enforcing this. I think other parts of the dress code/uniform can be open for discussion, but at least keep the uniform top so I don't have to be the one to tell a girl she is showing too much skin.
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Friday, June 6th, 2008 @ 6:03 PM
I think we need to keep the uniform tops. As evidenced on free dress day, many female students will try to push the envelope and wear revealing clothing that is not appropriate for a junior high filled with hormone ravaged boys. I do not want to be put in the position of judging what is or is not an appropriate top for a girl to wear. It will always be a judgement call on someone's part, which leaves the door open for inconsistency in enforcing this. I think other parts of the dress code/uniform can be open for discussion, but at least keep the uniform top so I don't have to be the one to tell a girl she is showing too much skin.
Flag as inappropriateSharon Crawford said:
Sunday, June 8th, 2008 @ 3:27 AM
There is some deja vu in this for me. We attempted to get rid of the "tuck in" policy four years ago and we were told it was district policy because of safety and not negotiable. Now I learn that Dale was allowed to do this for the current year. Guess the district is no longer concerned about our students "concealing" weapons. What a relief. I am really tired of telling students to tuck in their shirts, especially when the moment they leave the class, they untuck them - arriving at their next class to do battle yet again over this issue. Next year will be difficult enough with larger class sizes - it would be a blessing to not worry aobut a tucked in shirt. That said, however, I am not in favor of doing away with the uniforms totally. I like the idea of keeping the shirts, but allowing jeans or other lower wear. Even if we can't see the shirts, it is still a powerful social equalizer, and I am not ready to give this aspect of our uniforms up yet.
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Sunday, June 8th, 2008 @ 3:27 AM
There is some deja vu in this for me. We attempted to get rid of the "tuck in" policy four years ago and we were told it was district policy because of safety and not negotiable. Now I learn that Dale was allowed to do this for the current year. Guess the district is no longer concerned about our students "concealing" weapons. What a relief. I am really tired of telling students to tuck in their shirts, especially when the moment they leave the class, they untuck them - arriving at their next class to do battle yet again over this issue. Next year will be difficult enough with larger class sizes - it would be a blessing to not worry aobut a tucked in shirt. That said, however, I am not in favor of doing away with the uniforms totally. I like the idea of keeping the shirts, but allowing jeans or other lower wear. Even if we can't see the shirts, it is still a powerful social equalizer, and I am not ready to give this aspect of our uniforms up yet.
Flag as inappropriateJoy Reyes said:
Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 10:10 AM
I completely agree with everything Sharon just said!!!! Having a uniform, even if only a shirt, makes enforcement and social equality so much easier!!!!!!!!!!! With the uniform bottoms, students are able to push the envelope by wearing khaki colored mini-skirts, etc., but there is not much they can do with a purchased uniform top. I do like having the khaki bottoms, but would not cry if jeans were allowed. Sometimes it makes me feel bad to wear jeans to school knowing that most of the kids will be dressed slightly nicer than me, but it doesn't bug me enough to stop me! I definitely feel that tucking in shirts is too large of a battle to pick. If a kid is going to bring a weapon to school, they'll find a way to bring it to school, regardless of whether they have to have their shirt tucked in or not. Maybe someone should look into Dale's reinforcement issues this year and see if they had an increase in weapons on campus?
Bottom Line: I vote to keep the uniform, but lose the tuck rule. If we allow jeans, I won't be too upset, but would vote against it if asked.
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Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 10:10 AM
I completely agree with everything Sharon just said!!!! Having a uniform, even if only a shirt, makes enforcement and social equality so much easier!!!!!!!!!!! With the uniform bottoms, students are able to push the envelope by wearing khaki colored mini-skirts, etc., but there is not much they can do with a purchased uniform top. I do like having the khaki bottoms, but would not cry if jeans were allowed. Sometimes it makes me feel bad to wear jeans to school knowing that most of the kids will be dressed slightly nicer than me, but it doesn't bug me enough to stop me! I definitely feel that tucking in shirts is too large of a battle to pick. If a kid is going to bring a weapon to school, they'll find a way to bring it to school, regardless of whether they have to have their shirt tucked in or not. Maybe someone should look into Dale's reinforcement issues this year and see if they had an increase in weapons on campus?
Bottom Line: I vote to keep the uniform, but lose the tuck rule. If we allow jeans, I won't be too upset, but would vote against it if asked.
Flag as inappropriateSue Klingelsmith said:
Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 10:33 AM
I agree with Chuck. The kids looked great on the free dress day - neat and clean. They took pride in how they looked. I vote for no uniforms.
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Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 10:33 AM
I agree with Chuck. The kids looked great on the free dress day - neat and clean. They took pride in how they looked. I vote for no uniforms.
Flag as inappropriateScott Lillywhite said:
Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 10:51 AM
I don't know how much bennefit is gained from the uniform. My daughter will be attending a uniform school and on a purely selfish level, I am looking forward to not arguing about back-to-school shopping or what outfit she will wear to school. Getting past my selfishness, I don't care what dress code we have as long as it is enforceable and is enforced. For example, if we allow students to customize their uniforms with multiple layers and outerwear to the point that you cannot see the uniform, then what is the point?
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Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 10:51 AM
I don't know how much bennefit is gained from the uniform. My daughter will be attending a uniform school and on a purely selfish level, I am looking forward to not arguing about back-to-school shopping or what outfit she will wear to school. Getting past my selfishness, I don't care what dress code we have as long as it is enforceable and is enforced. For example, if we allow students to customize their uniforms with multiple layers and outerwear to the point that you cannot see the uniform, then what is the point?
Flag as inappropriateJames Geier said:
Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 11:38 AM
When I first saw this blog, I said to myself, “finally we have a chance to get rid of those things!” I have always disliked seeing the kids all looking exactly the same. As Heather noted, kids don’t have uniforms in elementary school, and they don’t have to wear them in high school, so why do we need them here? At our lunchroom table we had quite a lively discussion about this topic last week. It was brought up that some kids might end up wearing gang “colors” which might bring on gang related conflicts. I don’t know if that would happen or not. I truly hope we can eliminate the uniform completely, but if we cannot do this, maybe we can have a compromise. Perhaps we can keep the shirts, lose the tuck in rule, allow jeans, and allow a uniform-free day once a week or once a month. That way we could wean kids, and teachers, from the uniform.
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Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 11:38 AM
When I first saw this blog, I said to myself, “finally we have a chance to get rid of those things!” I have always disliked seeing the kids all looking exactly the same. As Heather noted, kids don’t have uniforms in elementary school, and they don’t have to wear them in high school, so why do we need them here? At our lunchroom table we had quite a lively discussion about this topic last week. It was brought up that some kids might end up wearing gang “colors” which might bring on gang related conflicts. I don’t know if that would happen or not. I truly hope we can eliminate the uniform completely, but if we cannot do this, maybe we can have a compromise. Perhaps we can keep the shirts, lose the tuck in rule, allow jeans, and allow a uniform-free day once a week or once a month. That way we could wean kids, and teachers, from the uniform.
Flag as inappropriateLouEtta Lacher said:
Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 1:34 PM
I have started this comment several times and realize that we have come a long way since the time of the big baggy pants and the huge oversized shirts that we thought could conceal many items. When the students had the free dress day, they looked great and seem to conduct themselves accordingly. I would vote for no uniforms giving the students an opportunity to demonstrate that they have earned that as a privilege. I understand the concerns that the uniform shirt (with no tuck in rule) adds many advantages for our school. Regardles of the decision regarding the policy, we must ALL SUPPORT THE POLICY AND ENFORCE THE POLICY FROM THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL - including teachers, office staff, administration, and security, etc. We can all come together to make this a positive statement and I feel our students deserve. I still vote for no uniforms.
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Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 1:34 PM
I have started this comment several times and realize that we have come a long way since the time of the big baggy pants and the huge oversized shirts that we thought could conceal many items. When the students had the free dress day, they looked great and seem to conduct themselves accordingly. I would vote for no uniforms giving the students an opportunity to demonstrate that they have earned that as a privilege. I understand the concerns that the uniform shirt (with no tuck in rule) adds many advantages for our school. Regardles of the decision regarding the policy, we must ALL SUPPORT THE POLICY AND ENFORCE THE POLICY FROM THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL - including teachers, office staff, administration, and security, etc. We can all come together to make this a positive statement and I feel our students deserve. I still vote for no uniforms.
Flag as inappropriatePamela Schmidt said:
Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 2:02 PM
In my not-so-humble opinion we should keep the uniform shirts (proper sizes) but do away with tucking them in. I think heavier kids feel self-conscious about wearing shirts in a way that accentuates their being overweight, and obviously a lot of kids choose to wear them untucked. If this really ends up being a problem, we could go back to tucking them in. Not sure what I feel about jeans- questionable. I do feel, however, that it is absurd to let the girls wear the tiniest little shorts and ignore that being against the dress code. These girls look like they are dressed (or almost undressed) for a day at the beach, not school. It is important to enforce the policy we do decide on, or it isn't worth much!
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Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 2:02 PM
In my not-so-humble opinion we should keep the uniform shirts (proper sizes) but do away with tucking them in. I think heavier kids feel self-conscious about wearing shirts in a way that accentuates their being overweight, and obviously a lot of kids choose to wear them untucked. If this really ends up being a problem, we could go back to tucking them in. Not sure what I feel about jeans- questionable. I do feel, however, that it is absurd to let the girls wear the tiniest little shorts and ignore that being against the dress code. These girls look like they are dressed (or almost undressed) for a day at the beach, not school. It is important to enforce the policy we do decide on, or it isn't worth much!
Flag as inappropriateEd DeCook said:
Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 2:37 PM
In general I will support whatever dress code is adopted; HOWEVER, whatever is adopted needs to be enforced consistently. It is very demoralizing to try and enforce the rules and then not be supported – either by your colleagues or the administration. Additionally, our authority and credibility are debased whenever the standards are relaxed (remember the no-big-logo sweatshirt rule?) or students are given a "pass" because things are too busy to be bothered with dress code issues. This is a school policy issue and thus can, and should be, enforced campus-wide.
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Monday, June 9th, 2008 @ 2:37 PM
In general I will support whatever dress code is adopted; HOWEVER, whatever is adopted needs to be enforced consistently. It is very demoralizing to try and enforce the rules and then not be supported – either by your colleagues or the administration. Additionally, our authority and credibility are debased whenever the standards are relaxed (remember the no-big-logo sweatshirt rule?) or students are given a "pass" because things are too busy to be bothered with dress code issues. This is a school policy issue and thus can, and should be, enforced campus-wide.
Flag as inappropriateLupe Hubbard said:
Tuesday, June 10th, 2008 @ 2:22 PM
I agree with No Uniforms.
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Tuesday, June 10th, 2008 @ 2:22 PM
I agree with No Uniforms.
Flag as inappropriateDiane Roberts said:
Wednesday, June 11th, 2008 @ 9:05 AM
I think the kids looked good on free dress day and would be happy with no uniforms. At the very least, we need to get rid of the pants requirement. I dont see any reason to have the kids wear khaki/navy pants, and have the parents buy extra pants for school that end up very dirty by the end of the year. They look fine in jeans, and it would be less of a burden to our parents.
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Wednesday, June 11th, 2008 @ 9:05 AM
I think the kids looked good on free dress day and would be happy with no uniforms. At the very least, we need to get rid of the pants requirement. I dont see any reason to have the kids wear khaki/navy pants, and have the parents buy extra pants for school that end up very dirty by the end of the year. They look fine in jeans, and it would be less of a burden to our parents.
Flag as inappropriateShirley Rumbolt said:
Wednesday, June 11th, 2008 @ 1:51 PM
Whatever we decide needs to be enforceable. I also think we need to make a decision on how short the shorts and skirts can be and make sure that it is in writing so we have something to use to help enforce the rule. (I know that Dale had a rule that the shorts and skirts had to be at least an inch below the fingertips and it was easy to enforce that rule.) What will we be doing discipline-wise to enforce or deal with out-of-compliance students? I agree with letting them be untucked as long as the shirts are not 2 sizes too big for the student.
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Wednesday, June 11th, 2008 @ 1:51 PM
Whatever we decide needs to be enforceable. I also think we need to make a decision on how short the shorts and skirts can be and make sure that it is in writing so we have something to use to help enforce the rule. (I know that Dale had a rule that the shorts and skirts had to be at least an inch below the fingertips and it was easy to enforce that rule.) What will we be doing discipline-wise to enforce or deal with out-of-compliance students? I agree with letting them be untucked as long as the shirts are not 2 sizes too big for the student.
Flag as inappropriateMary Jurenka said:
Friday, June 13th, 2008 @ 9:41 AM
I have given this a considerable amount of thought, probably too much, but it has been a long year of kids pushing the boundaries of our uniform policy to the point where we can hardly even SEE if they are even WEARING a uniform shirt. A tightening of parts of the policy would make it absolutely clear as to what is allowed and what is not. I propose the following:
* Uniform shirts: In the colors we have now, but NO TUCKING REQUIRED. Size needs to be appropriate. It must NOT go past their fingertips when at the sides, and should not extend more then 6 inches from their side either. Sleeves must not go past their elbows.
* Outer wear: The only outer wear permitted to be worn over the Orangeview uniform shirt MUST be an actaul sweatshirt, jacket, or sweater that zips/buttons up top to bottom/bottom to top, no pullovers, with the exception of an Orangeview logo "hoodie". ALL OUTER WEAR WAS BE SOLID IN COLOR, NO LOGOS, PRINTS, PLAIDS, PATTERNS, etc. EXCEPT the Orangeview logo. Outer wear must be SOLID navy blue, light blue, black, or white. I feel that this would eliminate the problem we have with inappropriate logos, South Pole, and students covering their uniform so we can't even see it. The color scheme makes them very easily identified.
*Bottom wear: I'm still in favor of Khaki and Navy blue, and maybe jeans, but only if we are clear that they have NO DECORATION/EMBELLISHMENTS, and must be SOLID. Also skirts/skorts need to be longer then the fingertips at the sides, but not covering socks pulled over the knees. That is a DISTRICT standard.
Whatever we decide it needs to be enforcable, with no fuzzy lines, no vagueness, no ambiguity, no loopholes. I don't think a kid is going to stuff something under an untucked shirt, but I do see the need to level the playing field and focus our kids on the education they are here to get, not the latest fad. As for laundry, most kids change their clothes when they get home into something they CAN'T wear to school anyway, so I don't see that as too big an issue. My kids have always had play clothes and school clothes.
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Friday, June 13th, 2008 @ 9:41 AM
I have given this a considerable amount of thought, probably too much, but it has been a long year of kids pushing the boundaries of our uniform policy to the point where we can hardly even SEE if they are even WEARING a uniform shirt. A tightening of parts of the policy would make it absolutely clear as to what is allowed and what is not. I propose the following:
* Uniform shirts: In the colors we have now, but NO TUCKING REQUIRED. Size needs to be appropriate. It must NOT go past their fingertips when at the sides, and should not extend more then 6 inches from their side either. Sleeves must not go past their elbows.
* Outer wear: The only outer wear permitted to be worn over the Orangeview uniform shirt MUST be an actaul sweatshirt, jacket, or sweater that zips/buttons up top to bottom/bottom to top, no pullovers, with the exception of an Orangeview logo "hoodie". ALL OUTER WEAR WAS BE SOLID IN COLOR, NO LOGOS, PRINTS, PLAIDS, PATTERNS, etc. EXCEPT the Orangeview logo. Outer wear must be SOLID navy blue, light blue, black, or white. I feel that this would eliminate the problem we have with inappropriate logos, South Pole, and students covering their uniform so we can't even see it. The color scheme makes them very easily identified.
*Bottom wear: I'm still in favor of Khaki and Navy blue, and maybe jeans, but only if we are clear that they have NO DECORATION/EMBELLISHMENTS, and must be SOLID. Also skirts/skorts need to be longer then the fingertips at the sides, but not covering socks pulled over the knees. That is a DISTRICT standard.
Whatever we decide it needs to be enforcable, with no fuzzy lines, no vagueness, no ambiguity, no loopholes. I don't think a kid is going to stuff something under an untucked shirt, but I do see the need to level the playing field and focus our kids on the education they are here to get, not the latest fad. As for laundry, most kids change their clothes when they get home into something they CAN'T wear to school anyway, so I don't see that as too big an issue. My kids have always had play clothes and school clothes.
Flag as inappropriateMary Jurenka said:
Friday, June 13th, 2008 @ 10:00 AM
Sorry for the typos above, I have TWICE tried to submit and it hasn't gone through, so I was a little hasty this time.
Wanted to add:
* Underclothes: Clothing worn UNDER the uniform shirt must be the same color as the shirt or one of the other uniform shirt colors. Undershirts MUST NOT extend past the bottom of the uniform shirt when both are untucked. Undershirts MUST NOT extend past the sleeves of the uniform shirt unless it is the same color as the uniform shirt. Ladies underclothes MUST NOT be VISIBLE.
* Uniform Shirt SIZE: The uniform shirt must also not be TOO SMALL. SKIN or UNDERSCLOTHES must NOT be revealed when students raise their hands or bend over.
It may seem like a lot, but I think what is described is what we actually see in our minds when we picture a student in proper uniform attire. Buying outerwear or bottoms in the proper colors doesn't put a burden on the parents. Most clothing with logos is MORE expensive, the solid ones are "a dime a dozen". Letting go of the "tucked in" issue will alleviate a lot of headaches and the kids will be overjoyed, and with the rest VERY CLEAR, our policy will be easily enforced.
I support occasional "free dress" days. I too felt that most students looked very nice on our free dress day, but as expected there were those who tried to push the boundaries. I also understand that students had 2 weeks to actually PLAN their outfits. I don't think they would be so careful with their choices if it was a daily thing. Maybe we could have a free dress on the last Friday of the month for students who had no detentions that month, or no tardies to school, or a super clean lunch area for a month, something where they had to earn it.
Again, whatever is decided needs to be absolutely clear, and easily enforced.
Flag as inappropriate
Friday, June 13th, 2008 @ 10:00 AM
Sorry for the typos above, I have TWICE tried to submit and it hasn't gone through, so I was a little hasty this time.
Wanted to add:
* Underclothes: Clothing worn UNDER the uniform shirt must be the same color as the shirt or one of the other uniform shirt colors. Undershirts MUST NOT extend past the bottom of the uniform shirt when both are untucked. Undershirts MUST NOT extend past the sleeves of the uniform shirt unless it is the same color as the uniform shirt. Ladies underclothes MUST NOT be VISIBLE.
* Uniform Shirt SIZE: The uniform shirt must also not be TOO SMALL. SKIN or UNDERSCLOTHES must NOT be revealed when students raise their hands or bend over.
It may seem like a lot, but I think what is described is what we actually see in our minds when we picture a student in proper uniform attire. Buying outerwear or bottoms in the proper colors doesn't put a burden on the parents. Most clothing with logos is MORE expensive, the solid ones are "a dime a dozen". Letting go of the "tucked in" issue will alleviate a lot of headaches and the kids will be overjoyed, and with the rest VERY CLEAR, our policy will be easily enforced.
I support occasional "free dress" days. I too felt that most students looked very nice on our free dress day, but as expected there were those who tried to push the boundaries. I also understand that students had 2 weeks to actually PLAN their outfits. I don't think they would be so careful with their choices if it was a daily thing. Maybe we could have a free dress on the last Friday of the month for students who had no detentions that month, or no tardies to school, or a super clean lunch area for a month, something where they had to earn it.
Again, whatever is decided needs to be absolutely clear, and easily enforced.
Flag as inappropriateJenny Grant said:
Friday, June 13th, 2008 @ 10:33 AM
While I won't be here next year :-( I have an experience to share that might help with whatever decision is made. BPJH changed from a uniform to non-uniform school while I worked there, and these were the 3 most common issues that resulted (so Orangeview might want to prepare to really crack down on these from the beginning if it switches to a non-uniform policy), with possible solutions:
1) Cleavage (we have a ton of returned uniform shirts and will get more on Monday, so girls with inappropriate tops should change out of their own shirts – to be held as collateral for each uniform shirt’s return – to prevent the girls from trying to change back over the course of the school day)
2) Tank-Tops/Spaghetti Straps (same solution as above)
3) Short Shorts and Skirts (this rule was easy and effective: when students stand with their arms relaxed at their sides, their fingertips must not land below the clothing’s hem).
I hope that helps! :-)
Flag as inappropriate
Friday, June 13th, 2008 @ 10:33 AM
While I won't be here next year :-( I have an experience to share that might help with whatever decision is made. BPJH changed from a uniform to non-uniform school while I worked there, and these were the 3 most common issues that resulted (so Orangeview might want to prepare to really crack down on these from the beginning if it switches to a non-uniform policy), with possible solutions:
1) Cleavage (we have a ton of returned uniform shirts and will get more on Monday, so girls with inappropriate tops should change out of their own shirts – to be held as collateral for each uniform shirt’s return – to prevent the girls from trying to change back over the course of the school day)
2) Tank-Tops/Spaghetti Straps (same solution as above)
3) Short Shorts and Skirts (this rule was easy and effective: when students stand with their arms relaxed at their sides, their fingertips must not land below the clothing’s hem).
I hope that helps! :-)
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